“我感兴趣的是对非中文读者有意义的图书”

(“I am interested in books that are meaningful to non-Chinese readers.”)

沈凯伦 Karen Christensen，美国宝库山出版社CEO）- the original English Q&A and notes appear below the Chinese text, and the PDF is here: Chinese-interview-YP17B20241220C_Print.

Note to readers: Unfortunately, the publication deleted an important point: “Some of my Chinese colleagues resist the idea that native English speakers are essential, insisting that only they can understand what the Chinese means and thus are more capable of expressing it in English.” I’m sure that this point would also have been censored, had I thought of it in time to include it: “Indeed, artificial intelligence is useful, but it is more likely to eliminate the need for a Chinese native translator, and not the work of the English-language translator editor.” 

世界出版 2024 年12 月20 日星期五第2980 期 海外出版机构谈中国图书出版之道

我从童 年时起就对中国非常痴迷。

了解中国的商业文化、管理文化和汉语，
这对很多美国人来说是大的挑战，而对出版社来说又
是非常好的题材，2000 年我创立了宝
库山出版社（Berkshire Publishing）。
由于长期对中国的关注，2007 年我被
提名为美中关系全国委员会成员，这
个委员会致力于促进两国人民相互
了解。我不断拓宽专家网络来增进
对中国的了解，并通过宝库山出版社
和举办培训活动传播这方面的信息。
在美国，有很多关于中国的图书，
但几乎所有受关注的图书都由中国以
外的专家和记者撰写。而从中国译介
的英文版图书少有问津，因此此类读
物越来越少。这些年，莫言和刘慈欣
等中国作家在美为人熟知，但应有更
多这样的中国作家出现在美国读者的
视野。造成这种局面有一部分原因
是，美国的出版社不具备选择和翻译
出版的专业能力。
实际上，有很多美国读者对中国
感兴趣，希望更多了解中国。但是受
教育的美国读者对中国历史和文化几
乎一无所知，缺少中国读者所有的语
境。较非虚构图书而言，小说更容易
跨越文化的藩篱，如果故事能反映全
人类的情感体验，这样的作品就可以
引起读者注意。
美国有很多出版中国题材的出版
社，但是没有像宝库山这样专注于中
国内容，并与中国专家和出版社密切
合作的出版社。
2001 年我首次到中国访问，之后
去了很多次，尤其是2007 年。我儿子
多年来担任宝库山北京公司代表，他会讲中文，经常与北京和上海的很多
人见面交流，他已回到美国。现在宝
库山在中国没有新的联系人。
从出版图书看，宝库山出版的《中
国百科全书》（Encyclopedia of China）
由来自中国和其他国家的作者共同编
写，出版后广受赞誉，此外，我们还翻
译出版了清代散文家袁枚的《随园食
单》。著名美食评论家鲁斯·雷彻尔
（Ruth Reichl）赞叹这本书“不只是一
部美食作品（该书荣获美食家世界食
谱奖），还是美食史上最精彩的作品，
以及了解迷人而久违世界的一扇窗
口”。在将中国经典作品本土化方面
宝库山积累了一些经验，出版了很多
学者和作家创作的非虚构图书和传
记。虽然中国的出版物有很多吸引人
的特点，但我还是很难找到适合西方
市场的中国原创作品。
我经常将中国出版社寄来的图书
和书目送给专家评估，其中一些是从
中文翻译为英文的，也有一些专门针
对美国读者的。但是这些图书大多是
区域性的，如中国某省或某市的艺术，
而美国读者首先更需要一般性的、入
门级的内容。
与中国出版社出书的一个重要差
别是，西方出版社必须有信心出版一
本书后第一年获得盈利。我收到的大
部分图书虽能吸引一部分读者，但没
有达到盈利的程度，尤其是精美的插
图类图书更是如此。制作成本和时效
性是一大挑战。
另一大挑战是翻译和编辑观点上
的差异。不仅中文图书，也包括中国
出版社提供的英文内容，都有这方面
的问题。出版中国的内容时，我们必
须找到英语母语者译为流利、准确、且
符合日常使用习惯的文字。这是国际
翻译标准和联合国的规则，即译者必
须是母语译者。
我们组建了一支高级译者组成的
团队，他们是能阅读中文的英语母语
译者，与中国译者或编辑密切合作。
多年来这一过程一直在优化，并带来了很好的结果，但是代价也很大。与
韩国和其他欧洲国家不同，中国还没
有形成向美国出版社提供翻译补贴的
制度。当我们想翻译一个复杂的、微
妙的思想并解释其原因和方法时，其
翻译过程就像翻译一首诗歌，这是一
个更难的过程。
图书发行方面，我们与英格拉姆
合作，使用其多项发行服务发行纸
书。电子书发行则与亚马逊、Kobo、苹
果和其他零售商合作。此外，我们也
向消费者直接销售图书。学校和图书
馆渠道则主要与地区图书发行商合
作，有些发行业务是与某些地区的用
户建立起长期合作。
美国出版社常常会对有吸引人
的人物和情节的叙事类图书感兴趣，
推理类小说在美国很受欢迎。我感
兴趣的是能真正对非中文读者有意
义的图书，而不是了解中国人生活、
思想、历史和文化的窗口的图书。能
描述人类生存困境的图书也可以引
起读者关注。希望有赛珍珠这样在
中国长大、会讲中文的小说家出现。
赛珍珠虽是美国人，但她可以从熟悉
的中国人视角创作。我知道很多中
国朋友阅读西方小说，我很愿意鼓励
这些中国作者和出版他们作品的出
版社多读英文小说。像夏洛蒂·勃朗
特的《简爱》这样的小说就很有指导
意义：其文化语境虽然对现代读者来
说较陌生，但是人类共通的戏剧性是
小说跨越边界的关键。或者想一想
简·奥斯汀（Jane Austen）的《劝导》。
虽然历经200 年很多事情都变了，但
基本情节没有变——命运多舛的恋
人最终找到了彼此，这是现代人很熟
悉的主题。
很高兴宝库山发现并出版了大量
中国的图书，宝库山熟悉中国作品并
开发了管理翻译和双语文本的数据
库，未来在童书、叙事类非虚构、插图
类散文、学术著作及虚构类作品方面
还会有巨大的市场机会。

Here’s the original email Q&A. If you are seeing an AI translation of the Chinese text (as I do, when I use the Chrome browser), you’ll also be able to see that my responses were edited and translated clearly – with the unfortunate deletion of what I assume to be uncomfortable: “Some of my Chinese colleagues resist the idea that native English speakers are essential, insisting that only they can understand what the Chinese means and thus are more capable of expressing it in English.” That is so, and it’s too bad the Chinese-only readers will not see it.

1. Have Mo Yan (or other literary writers), Liu Cixin and more genre novels published in the USA right now? Which Chinese books have got wide influence in USA?

When Americans talk about Chinese books they often mean books about China, rather than books from China. There are many books about China, almost all of them written by scholars and journalists outside China. Books translated from the Chinese get less attention, and there are fewer of them. The writers you mention are certainly well known, but there could be more of them. That is, books that will be read as widely as books from the UK or France or even India. I find that it is harder today to find books that will “travel” well in translation, unfortunately, in part because publishers do not have the expertise to choose and produce translated editions as well as they might.

How do you think of the American readers’ interests，especially to the Asian or Chinese books? Are there other American publishing houses focusing on the Asian or Chinese topics?

I find that many people are interested in China and would like to know more about it. But we have to remember that the average educated American reader knows almost nothing about Chinese history or culture, so they lack the context that a reader inside China has. Fiction can cross that barrier more easily than non-fiction, if the story captures a universal human experience.

There are many presses that publish at least a few books about China and Chinese topics, I do not know of a press other than Berkshire that has devoted so much attention to China, and to working with Chinese experts and Chinese presses.

2. When did your company founded? How many Chinese books have your company published? Among these titles, which categories are published in increasing number and sold well?

Berkshire Publishing Group was founded in 2000. I made my first trip to China the following year, and many visits after that, especially after 2007. My son was our representative in Beijing for a number of years, and he was the one who often met with people in Beijing and Shanghai on our behalf. (He speaks Chinese, as I do not.) But he has now returned to the US so I do not have an in-country representative.

3. Your company publishes Chinese-themed books, who are these books written by? How did American readers review these novels?

Our Encyclopedia of China has been widely praised and is the major English-language work of its kind. It has many contributors from China as well as other countries. I am most proud, however, that we were able to publish the first translation of the Suiyuan Shidan, 隨園食單 by Yuan Mei 袁枚 (published in Chinese in 1792. The famous food critic Ruth Reichl reviewed it:“This is far more than a cookbook. It is food history at its finest, a window into a fascinating and long-lost world.” It was winner of “Best in the World” at the Gourmand International Cookbook Awards. Making a Chinese classic accessible and appealing to US readers was a great honor for me as a publisher.

We publish nonfiction and biography, written by a wide range of academic and other writers. It is difficult to find books appropriate for the Western market, even though there are many attractive features about books published in China. I will offer some thoughts about that subject below.

4. How do you set up your Press’ publishing programme or book catalogue? As publishing every book is a process of trial and error or a surprise, how do you make the right choice during the process? How do you find the suitable Chinese titles?

I am often sent books to review, and catalogs from Chinese presses. Some are in English, translated within China. Others are on topics that are too specialized for a US audience. These are often regional titles – the art of a particular province or city, for example. The US audience needs more general, introductory books as a first step.

5. During the publishing process, from the original titles to the translated version, what’s your main task to publish a book that can be recognized and accepted by American readers?

One important difference is that a Western press has to feel confident about making a profit on a book in the first year. Most of the books I am offered would attract a readership, but not a readership large enough to be profitable. This is especially true of the beautifully illustrated books I sometimes see: the production costs and timing issues are a serious barrier.

The other challenge is a difference of perspective on translation and editing, which applies not only to books offered in Chinese, but books prepared in English by Chinese presses. When we publish text from China, it has to be put into fluid, correct, and idiomatic English by a native English speaker. This is a standard in international translation and a rule at the UN: translators and interpreters must be native speakers of the language they are translating into). Some of my Chinese colleagues resist this idea, insisting that only they can understand what the Chinese means and thus are more capable of expressing it in English. I sympathize with this argument, and we have typically had a senior translator who reads Chinese but is a native-English speaker, working with a Chinese translator or editor. This process has been refined over many years and produces an excellent result, but it is expensive! Unlike Korea and a number of European countries, China has not yet set up a system to provide subsidies for translation by the US publisher – instead, there are subsidies for translation to English within China, leaving us with the problem I have explained. (Of course AI will be helpful, but mostly with text that focuses on Who, What, and Where. When we try to convey complex, subtle ideas and write about Why and How, the translation process is more like translating poetry from one language to another, a far more difficult endeavor.)

6. Can you list your top 3 distribution partners? What’s the model do you have with Amazon and indie-distributors, on consignment or on exclusive sales terms? how do you tackle with the pricing issue? Are you still sending newsletter and sales representatives to targeted readers and bookstores?

We work closely with Ingram, using a number of their distribution services for print books. For ebooks, distribution includes Amazon, Kobo, Apple, and a long list of other retailers. We sell print through Amazon, of course, and also direct to customers. School and library sales often go through regional book distribution firms, some of them with long relationships with customers in a particular state.

7. What kind of Chinese books are you finding right now? Or which Chinese topics are you interest in now？

Publishers in general are likely to be interested in narrative books with engaging characters and storylines. Of course speculative fiction is popular. Personally what I would like to discover, either for my own press or as a reader, is more books than offer a window into Chinese life, thought, history, and culture – framed in a way that makes sense to non-Chinese readers. The universal human dilemmas of life translate well. I wish we had a popular novelist like Pearl S Buck, for example, who grew up in Chinese and spoke Chinese so well that when she was a child people looked to see where the voice was coming from – they could not believe the small blond girl had spoken. Indeed, she was American and wrote narrative of a familiar type, but I know many Chinese friends have read Western novels and I would encourage writers (and their publishers!) to read more in English. Even a classic like Jane Eyre is instructive: the cultural context is unfamiliar to all modern readers, including Americans, but the human drama is one that crosses all boundaries. Or think of Jane Austen’s Persuasion. Many things have changed in 200 years but the basic plot – ill-fated lovers who finally find each other – is familiar.

Personally, I would like very much to be able to identify and publish a wider range of books about China, especially because Berkshire is so familiar with Chinese works and has developed systems for managing translation and bilingual texts, which the larger publishers are not prepared to do. I see great opportunity in children’s books, narrative non-fiction, photo essays, accessible academic books, as well as fiction. Co-publishing is also a possibility for books of significance that will nonetheless have modest, specialist sales.

I sent this PS as well: I would like to note that we were thrilled and honored by the launch in Shanghai of the translation of the Berkshire Encyclopedia of World History less than a year ago. You may read about that here, and I understand that there are press reports online in Chinese, too. I thought you would also like to see this:
The Women’s Times September 2008
From Here to China
Karen Christensen got a call recently from the US Commercial Service in Boston, a government agency that helps companies expand their international sales. The caller was puzzled by a request: a woman visiting from the Beijing consulate wanted to meet with Christensen. Why would she want to meet someone in Western Massachusetts? Christensen told the caller, ‘I guess you guys haven’t heard that Great Barrington is now the China publishing capital of the world.’
Christensen was only partly joking. Her business, Berkshire Publishing, is responsible for both the Encyclopedia of China and the foremost newsletter for Americans doing business there. But having lived for many years in Europe, Christensen herself seems a bit surprised to find herself a China expert. “In 1998, I was sitting in a publisher’s office in New York and it just came out of my mouth: ‘Why don’t we do an encyclopedia of Asia?’ And I really knew nothing about Asia—though I’d been fascinated by it since I was a kid.”
In another sense, the China connection expands on Christensen’s core interests. An ardent environmentalist, she’s including more information on the subject in the next release of the encyclopedia. (A new edition of her book The Armchair Environmentalist is being released this year.) She says that reports by the U.S. press about China’s environmental issues can be misleading. “There are plenty of challenges there, but in terms of renewable energy sources they have made considerable efforts and are doing important things. It’s not a rosy picture, but it’s far from the doom and gloom that one gets in the press here.”
Christensen also has a strong interest in social networking and community, and personal connections are central to business in Asian cultures. The name of her newsletter, “Guanxi,” means relationship; for the Chinese, she says, business partnerships tend be much more durable than elsewhere. “There’s a very clear, unspoken sense of reciprocity—it’s much more than just exchanging business cards. From the Chinese people’s perspective you build a relationship, and if you build a relationship then you will do good business together.”
In May 2007, in recognition of her business’s unique focus, Christensen was nominated for membership on the National Committee on US China Relations, nonprofit that promotes a productive relationships between the two countries; she’s now part of a select group that includes Madeleine K. Albright, David R. Gergen and Henry A. Kissinger. She continues to develop her own network of experts in order to learn more about doing business in China and to disseminate information through her publishing company and trainings. China is unquestionably a challenge, she says, in terms of the business culture, the management culture, and the language. But for a publisher it’s also the perfect subject. China is a place, she says, “where a lot is happening and people are not doing things as well as they could if they had more information available. There’s just an enormous need for information.”